Date: 2021-06-22, 1300 CEST
Meet: https://membarrier.verkligendata.se/sigsum
Chair: rgdd

Agenda
	* Hello
	* Status round
	* Discuss
	* Next steps

Hello
	* rgdd
	* ln5
	* kfreds

Status round
		* [rgdd] project name and abbreviation (decided)
			* https://github.com/sigsum/sigsum/blob/4483a2f81e0bb2a4f1ac8cd02d2991c12ef8d556/archive/2021-06-21-project-name
			* Full version: Signed Checksum Logging
			* Short version: sigsum
			* Website: www.sigsum.org
		* [rgdd] sketch on how we work together (ongoing)
			* https://github.com/sigsum/sigsum/blob/4483a2f81e0bb2a4f1ac8cd02d2991c12ef8d556/archive/2021-06-21-how-we-work-together
		* [rgdd] planned tree head refactor (decided)
				* format changes: https://github.com/sigsum/sigsum/blob/4483a2f81e0bb2a4f1ac8cd02d2991c12ef8d556/archive/2021-06-21-tree-head-format
				* timestamp verification: https://github.com/sigsum/sigsum/blob/4483a2f81e0bb2a4f1ac8cd02d2991c12ef8d556/archive/2021-06-21-witness-timestamp-verification
		* [ln5] siglog-witness-py v0.1.0 is tagged
			* [rgdd] running tag v0.1.0 every minute (best effort)
				* vk: 777528f5fd96f95713b8c2bb48bce2c83628e39ad3bfbd95bc0045b143fe5c34
		* [ln5] acquired domain names
			* sigsum.org (decided)
		* [rgdd] acquired twitter account (no intent to use right now, see discuss)
			* https://twitter.com/sigsumproject
		* [rgdd] started sketching on an ascii chart: system overview (ongoing)
			* source: https://textik.com/#a2cb6ade2b580fc7
			* saved: https://github.com/sigsum/sigsum/blob/4483a2f81e0bb2a4f1ac8cd02d2991c12ef8d556/archive/2021-06-21-system-overview-ascii
			* (trying to figure out terminology and clarify system flows)

Discuss
	* Moving out from github and longer term project vision
		* Near term (decided)
			* Stay on github until end of vaccay, then move to a self-hosted setup
			* Create and rename repositories on github as we see fit for now
				* Grab sigsum or sigsumproject nick on github
				* We will mirror here later on
			* Defer decision on issues, ticketing system, mailing list, for now
		* Long term? (ongoing)
			* [ln5] https://github.com/sigsum/sigsum/blob/4483a2f81e0bb2a4f1ac8cd02d2991c12ef8d556/archive/2021-06-21-self-hosted-services
				* we need to agree on where we are going + which steps are needed
				* discussion round
					* "reference implementation"
						* this is how you can do a sensible tlog system
						* strong threat model
						* few features, minimal approach, bottomline, generic
						* small diff to get transparent logging going
						* will facilitate more complex tlog applications in the future
					* free, open, inclusive, welcome people to be part of conversation, help people understand.
						* A goto place when you want to talk/learn/use tlog applications.
						* Not only about signed checksums, it is also about community
						* "hub"
					* mature operations
						* "not so ambitious features, but ambitious deployment"
						* logs
						* witnesses
					* Free and open source project, both in licence and governance
						* Mullvad funded to get started and will continue to fund
							* But should not have control of the project
						* This nuance needs to be depicted right, relates to trustworthiness
						* Transparency is key
							* Project origin story
							* How it started with ST
							* How it evolved into the current governence, long-term vision
								* The above document by ln5 is a good start
							* Structure needs to be described in greater detail
								* legal entity
								* how do you become part of the team
								* etc.
							* Trustworthiness can be facilitated by being consistent
					* No hard connection to ST, but ST is a use-case. We can describe and pitch in both directions, but sigsum logging and ST are distinct.
				* services?
					* something that we can operate on our own, but not too much overhead
					* costs: agony, money
					* important to start small
						* the minimal thing that we can work with
						* cgit, persist important documents
						* ticketing, code review, etc., we do semi-manually for now
							* code review: pads, irc, mail
							* ticketing: "todo.md"
							* (some people may think it is not modern enough, could result in people drop off. But could also attract people.)
					* [kfreds] long-term vision, in general: want to have everything self-hosted, and would like to facilitate self-hosting for self and others.
		* ln5 mentions [MeetBot](http://meetbot.debian.net/Manual.html) for meeting minutes in meetings on IRC
	* Licence and copyright holder
		* Trillian is Apache. Probably good to use the same for the log server.
		* Not clear if we should use a different licence for, e.g., tooling. Why (not)?
			* Open question.
		* Copyright: "the sigsum project"
	* Website
		* redirect sigsum.org to github README?
			* No, potential risk that github is perceived as our home
			* ln5 will setup a webserver that is co-located with the log for now
		* continue content discussion async
			* rgdd will post a pad link on irc
	* if we've got twitter, we should have presence in the Fediverse too
		* mastodon.social is the canonical, but centralised heh, place to go (like we use matrix.org at the moment)
		* we could have our main outlet in the Fediverse and just mirror (one-way!) to birdsite
		* (Deferred, not discussed.  Don't use twitter for now.)

Next steps
	* wrap up before vaccations
		* make sure that rgdd can (re)start the PoC log
		* minimal website
		* migrate from system-transpareny project into sigsum-project on github
			* move and rename: stfe -> sigsum-log-go
			* move and rename: siglog-witness-py -> sigsum-witness-py
			* add: sigsum
				* archive
				* website
		* update documentation, "sigsum logging"
		* migrade from irc/oftc #siglog -> irc/oftc #sigsum, bridge with Matrix
	* rgdd is around part time during the summer to keep things going

Other useful links
	* [ln5] Google announced SLSA.  Important key-word: provenance.
		* https://security.googleblog.com/2021/06/introducing-slsa-end-to-end-framework.html
	* [bjoto] Ongoing discussion between Fedora and Sigstore
		* https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/859965/b14e4ebdc57b8285/
	* [rgdd] Melera preprinted "Hardware-Enforced Integrity and Provenance for Distributed Code Deployments". Another provenance format.
		* https://arxiv.org/pdf/2106.09843.pdf
	* [rgdd] Debian on ditching OpenPGP. Points towards Ed25515 with, e.g., signify.
		* https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/Apt/Spec/AptSign